Marlène Ramírez-Cancio

Nicolás Dumit Estévez Raful Espejo Ovalles Morel: Querida, we met quite a while ago in the realm of the Hemispheric Institute of Performance and Politics. At present, we co-facilitate the virtual offering of EmergeNYC, the groundbreaking program that you and george emilio sánchez launched in 2009, and which george continues to facilitate in person at BAX/Brooklyn Arts Exchange. Would you mind pulling the tarot out to answer the questions that I will pose? What is the card that opens up this conversation and what does it have to say?

Marlène Ramírez-Cancio: ¡Queridísimo! What an honor to be included in your interview series for The Interior Beauty Salon—no sé cómo tú duermes, given everything you do! So: GRACIAS. This is going to be fun, pulling tarot cards to guide my answers… Ailóbit!

This conversation opener question merits a Major Arcana pull, so I’ll use Chancletazo for Your Soul, the Latinx Major Arcana deck I began making during lockdown. Let’s see what it tells us…

(I pull: El Chavo.) (I laugh). El Chavo —like The Fool in the traditional tarot decks— is literally the path-opener, the one who begins the journey, thrusting (and trusting) themselves into the unknown. And so, we begin! I pulled the card reversed, which is not surprising, since I took forever to get this conversation going with you… Thank you for your patience, and thank you for having me, despite my delay.) Pa’lante!

NDEREOM: Melatonin in hand. Sleeping at night has been an issue for me since I was a baby I the Caribbean. I am working with befriending the dark, so let’s see.

We communicated and worked closely together during the COVID-19 pandemic. This was in fact when the online counterpart of the in-person EmergeNYC took off. That was for me a period of extreme turmoil, but also of new discoveries. What card would like to invite to speak now, and what is its message about where you might be going, creatively with all you do? And can you please pull another card out with any advice as to where we are walking collectively? I am thinking about the four months ahead in the US.

MRC: Ouff… Last week we felt the barrage of Executive Orders being passed down, the indiscriminate layoffs at the federal level, the assertion that women need to be defended from radical “gender ideology,” that there are only “two biological sexes,” that initiatives that support diversity, equity, and inclusion are “illegal discrimination,” and so many other cruelties. We’ve seen the bare-naked oligarchy (and broligarchy) hard at work in their attempt to destabilize and dismantle democratic systems… So these next four months look to be filled with unnecessary human suffering. I’m very much leaning into community these days—staying away from social media as much as possible, communicating directly with people using the phone, tending to my closest friends and community members. I’ve asked EmergeNYC and BAX alumni artists to “call me like it’s 1999,” and some folks definitely took me up on that invitation, leading to surprising, beautiful conversations!

Let me first pull a card for where I might be going creatively. I’m switching to the Smith-Rider-Waite deck now. (I pull The World). (I stare.) Wow Nicolás. This is a card of completion, achievement, wholeness, plenitude… I’m receiving it as: Now I get to revel in—and lean into—the very communities and practices I’ve worked so many years to nourish. For me, it’s all about love, generosity, reciprocity, and all of that is profoundly creative. I also think this very practice of pulling cards is part of The World for me… (In Chancletazo for Your Soul, The World card is El Tan-Tán, in case you’re curious.)

Now let me pull another card about our collective path. (I pull The Hierophant). (Another Major Arcana.) These are some powerful energies, Nicolás! The Hierophant (or La Sor Juana, in my deck) asks us: “What are your spiritual beliefs, value systems, and ethical principles? How did those come into being for you? If you are guided by traditions, institutions, or doctrines, how do you integrate their teachings—or disidentify from them—and make them your own?” That is a pivotal set of questions right now, and we should absolutely be evaluating our belief systems, making sure we are aligned with them, and are acting accordingly.

NDEREOM: These cards do speak the times we are in. I have been personally wrestling with Spirit, and we have been in the rink for a while, pretty much like Jack Veneno and Relámpago Hernádez

What does EmergeNYC mean to/for you, and where do you see this program going? You have worked with so much intention to continue this initiative beyond its years at NYU and you have seen it succeed through the most difficult challenges. What is the card?

 MRC: EmergeNYC is a labor of love for both george emilio sanchez and me. We’ve directing the program for 17 years, through thick and thin, nurturing a community of artists and cultural workers in NYC and beyond. The card I pulled was The King of Wands, reversed. As Leos, george and I certainly can embody the fire and passion, the action-oriented vision of this fiery king—however, it’s not about our individual leadership but about the collective “we,” about our collective strength. The reversal can also be a reflection of the exhaustion many of us feel in these challenging times, showing how energies of empowerment can be turned upside down if we let them. So I’d say: let’s keep leading collectively, confidently, with passion, and keep our strength up for the long haul!

NDEREOM: I hear you about the collective exhaustion that the political theater is producing in some of us. It is like a bad circus that does not give the collective a freaking break.

What do you do to keep yourself balanced? You have a daughter, two cats and devote a great deal of energies to BAX (Brooklyn Arts Exchange)? Card!

MRC: Two cards: Three of Wands and the Ace of Cups. Continuing to look out ahead, envisioning the future, charting out paths, and making sure I do it all from a wellspring of love, intuition, and creative flow.

NDEREOM: Who is Mujer que Pregunta? What does she do? How does she go about life? Is she connected to The Tarot Issue: Chancletazo for Your Soul, An Aster(ix) Anthology? I almost named your book a Chancletazo Espiritual! Another card?

MRC: Ha! Yes, indeed— Mujer que Pregunta is my Tarot and Process Doula practice, which began over the pandemic lockdown in the spring of 2020. It began with a phrase I often heard in Puerto Rico, “mujer que pregunta es mujer que sabe,” or ‘a woman who asks is a woman who [already] knows,’ because I really do believe the answers to the questions we ask the Tarot are—on some intuitive level— already inside us. And so the process of a reading is more a conversation with oneself, a way to access our deep inner knowing. The card: Queen of Pentacles. One of the healers and nurturers of the Tarot, connected to all of nature, to her own body, to abundance. That’s a great somatic card for Mujer que Pregunta.

NDEREOM: Tell me about Fulana de Tal and her performance art work. Where do the cards situate her in your creative universe, as it expands into arts administration, facilitation, teaching, studying, and process coaching?

MRC: You’re thinking of my email handle, fulanadetal, which I’ve had since 1997, when I first got a Hotmail account—imagínate! That’s 28 years ago, a full Saturn return!

In 2000, after I moved to New York from San Francisco, I co-founded Fulana, a Latina satire and parody collective with Lisandra Ramos, Andrea Thome, and Cristina Ibarra. So it was Fulana, collectively, that wrote and produced videos like Amnezac —it’s my voice, but we conceived it, wrote it, and produced it together. Our 2004 interventions in the subway, “If You Fear Something, You’ll See Something,” were public performances in a way, but in paper form. In terms of live performance, we didn’t do much of that, but when we did, it was amazing experiences like performing with Guillermo Gómez Peña at El Museo del Barrio —which was incredibly fun. ¡El tiempo pasa volando! Much like the “anyone-ness” of“mujer que pregunta,” the concept behind Fulana was also that anyone (cualquier fulana) could do what we were doing. This was embedded in the collective, non-hierarchical ethos of the group.

NDEREOM: I still have a hotmail address. I refuse to let this go. Red. Rojo. What is in this color for you? What does it mean tarot-wise?

MRC: Red is my power color, and Fulana’s collective colors always included red. It’s where I feel most at home, most alive. Tarot-wise, I guess red can also be about embracing your power — cards we’ve pulled today, like the Queen of Pentacles, the King of Wands, the Hierophant, and the Three of Wands all have figures dressed in red, just like The Magician, The Emperor, and Justice, to name just a few. Even the main figure in the Eight of Cups—which is about letting something go, walking away from what no longer serves you—is also wearing red, symbolizing there is power in this kind of conscious release. So, in a nutshell: deep inner power.

NDEREOM: Speaking of power, I would like to retake the conversation about EmergeNYC because I believe in the power of palabras. What keeps you wanting to infuse this program with your love and care?

MRC: As Angela Davis once wrote, “It is in collectivities that we find reservoirs of hope and optimism.” From my earliest days in theater (Latina Theatre Lab), to Fulana, to the Hemispheric Institute to Emerge to LxNY to NPN to BAX, the work I’ve engaged in has always been collective. It’s always been about building relationships, connecting people, and nurturing networks. That’s what keeps me wanting to infuse Emerge with love and care! LA GENTE!

NDEREOM: So much of this resonates with me. Most of the work I do is in collaboration or partnership with others, whether individuals or communities.

It is a pleasure to work with you. I value your honesty and vulnerabilidad. I see our work together as an opportunity to continue to deepen my creative practice and to radicalize myself more. Mira, if one doesn’t say it like it is after 50, then when, ¡Coñazo! Is it okay to pull two cards out? You are the expert at this.

MRC: Ok mi amor: The 6 of Pentacles: Generosity, dar y recibir, the balanced scales of reciprocity. Are you allowing yourself to receive as much as you give to others? (To reiterate my earlier question: when do you sleep!?) Are you finding yourself depleted or fulfilled? Are your relationships reciprocal? Are you feeling balanced? All of these questions are being asked of you now. Tune into your body and see what answers it yields.

The second card: 10 of Wands. ¡Muchacho! The card of carrying a heavy load, feeling overwhelmed, and being overworked. Need I say more? The card is toward the end of the Wands journey, reminding you that the end of this particular phase is near, and you will be able to set down the load you’ve been carrying. La pregunta here is: at what cost? Is there anything you can do now to reduce burnout? What can you delegate or entirely let go of? ¡A soltar! We need you in this world with your creative and emotional tank full!

NDEREOM: ¡Ay Madre! A cogerlo con su-avena, como dice mi tía en Manhattan. Un gran abrazo to you and your loved ones. Que alegría inventar posibilidades contigo.

MRC: ¡Qué alegría indeed! Gracias por existir y por ser mi gran colaboradora en este camino.

All images and videos courtesy of Marlène Ramírez-Cancio

Marlène Ramírez-Cancio’’s links: Website / Mujer que Pregunta Website / EmergeNYC Website / Mujer que Pregunta Instagram / EmergeNYC Instagram / BAX (Brooklyn Art Exchange)

Marlène Ramírez-Cancio is a Puerto Rican cultural producer, artist, and educator based in Brooklyn, New York. As Artistic Director of BAX/Brooklyn Arts Exchange, she creates spaces of inquiry and praxis for artist-led initiatives. Since 2008, she has directed EmergeNYC, an incubator and affinity network for socially engaged artists to develop their creative voice, explore the intersections of art and activism, and connect to a thriving community of BIPOC, migrant, and LGBTQIA+ practitioners. Now a program of BAX, EmergeNYC fosters a brave space for experimentation, risk-taking, and mutual accountability, and has over 350 alumni in New York City and beyond.

Through Mujer Que Pregunta, Marlène works as a Process Doula and Tarot practitioner, helping artists, scholars, and cultural workers shape their ideas and clarify their vision. As Artist in Residence with Aster(ix) Journal, she created the Chancletazo for Your Soul deck, a reimagining of the Tarot Major Arcana with Latinx cultural icons. Marlène also co-founded Fulana, a Latina satire collective (active 2000-2018), and leads yearly satire and parody workshops for emerging artists.

She serves on the Board of Directors of the National Performance Network, the Steering Committee of LxNY | Latinx Arts Consortium of New York, and the Board of Advisors of The Action Lab and the Center for Artistic Activism.